Mr David McDonald said “I certainly won’t” before identifying himself as the former Deputy Head of Research for the Aboriginal Deaths in Custody Royal Commission and also an ex servicemen from Vietnam.

“For many, many of us we feel a diminished society so long as Aboriginal peoples’ existence and rights and ongoing contributions are not fully acknowledged by important community organisations and for that reason I also commend the councillors who have moved this motion” said Mr McDonald.

Cr Turley said, “By supporting this acknowledgement Palerang council will demonstrate a genuine desire to show recognition and respect for that connection to country.”

Cr Moore said “I attended the Tent Embassy 40th anniversary celebrations last week opposite Old Parliament House and witnessed a very large gathering of Indigenous and non-Indigenous people who were there in solidarity to celebrate the anniversary and discuss ways forward. I believe that if there is anything we can do to recognise and acknowledge the ongoing existence and survival of Indigenous people, and by doing so, remind ourselves of the need to address the inequalities that still exist, we ought to.

“This is an important step towards furthering the healing process. Many other councils and government departments as well as some committees of this council acknowledge the traditional custodians as a matter of course, and many councils fly the Aboriginal flag along with the Australian one. The suggested words for the acknowledgment are I believe very appropriate and go beyond the token utterances that we are used to hearing. These words are heart-warming and genuine and I would be proud to have them as a standard opening to our meetings.

I had hoped that acknowledgment might come naturally to this council, and certainly when I have been in the chair I have acknowledged the traditional custodians in committee and public meetings, and it was great to hear that the mayor included an acknowledgment at least one of the January 26 events. But it is almost better that it has come as a motion, and I want to congratulate Cr Turley for all the work she has done on it, because if we agree to it, which I I hope we will unanimously, it will be recorded as a resolution and will continue to be done as a matter of course into the future, until such time perhaps that it is no longer needed. This a great start to the year.”

Cr Goonan, while supporting the tenants of this motion was concerned about the extent of the actions it called for.

“Regardless of my personal feeling s I concerns re the negativity that it may engender. There are those that have said to me that it is pushing it in their face regardless of how they feel about the issue….To me it takes away spontaneity.

“I would rather people said it if they feel it” said Cr Goonan.

“It could act to create division. I would prefer that committees made a choice rather than have it forced on them. … It would be more powerful and meaningful choosing to say it.

“While I respect the symbolism behind the flag I am opposed to have the flag fly as it is divisive action - a symbol of separation rather than unity. There are times and places to display the indigenous flag, but I do not believe if adds to the integration of the community - rather it sets them apart.

The motion was then split into two parts with the agreement of Crs Moore and Turley.

Cr Cockram said “I don’t agree that this motion is in any way divisive to the community. There are hardly any people I know and possible no one I would respect.

“It has been accepted by many councils around the country as a standard instrument…as far as being is mantra perhaps you could remind me …does Parliament still start with the Lord Prayer? It’s not as if it’s an unknown idea.

“I have enormous difficulty with the idea of it being in any way disrespectful of the current national flag that we would fly the indigo flag as well.

“I can’t understand who you can be so terrible respectful of people who died for the red, white and blue flag and then totally negate the fact that another lot of people that just about died out in defence of the country which is symbolised by the other flag I just don’t get that

“It’s a spurious argument. The flag burning – It was an act of vandalism, it has nothing to do with what we are doing here.

“They were the custodians of the land until quite recently. There’s a growing body of evidence that the original inhabitants did manage the land and managed it very well and our record in the last 230 years has been not nearly do good.”

“I don’t want to see any thing taken out. I like it just as it is” said Cr Cockram.

Cr Marjason said “I support what Cr Goonan said – I always find these sorts of things just political correctness, trite and condescending and paternal. When I was mayor I refused to say it. I lived in Alice Springs for a couple of years. A lot of people I know, people of Aboriginal decent don’t particularly like this sort of thing and find it condescending.”

THE VOTE - All for Turley, Moore, Cockram, Harrison, Raynolds, Goonan & Crozier. Against: Marjason.

THE SECOND PART OF THE MOTION “in addition to the Australian flag, fly the Indigenous flag both outside and inside the Palerang Council Chambers” provoked more debate.

Cr Cockram said “I can’t see that some aboriginal people are embarrassed or don’t support the idea of the flag. I lived in Northern Territory for 10 years, and I never saw that.

“The sight of the red black and yellow flag is worn and used by some indigenous people with some degree of pride. And I think that if you were passing by the council office and you saw the flag then you’d thing ahhh terrific, those people are in the 21st Century.”

Cr Goonan said “around this table I don’t imagine there are many councillors who have suffered discrimination - I have first hand.

“While at uni I saw the Aboriginal flag as a symbol of a fight for recognition. But when we are trying to bring people together we need to focus on similarity than difference.

“I can well imagine what it is like in parliament when we hear the Lord Prayer it is lip service – I don’t want it to get to that. I value how far we have come and fully realise how far we have to go.

“The two flags side by side immediately creates a division - you see two flags. We are all what we call Australians” said Cr Goonan.

Mayor Raynolds said “I’m quite happy with the second motion as it is written. I think it’s a small step in recognition of the past and I think there has been considerable injustice in the past. I understand Cr Marjason’s point that two flags is not the perfect way to go, but Cr Goonan you’ve got to crawl before you walk. It would be nice if we had one flag, but before we get to that point, let the indigenous people have their flag. Let them feel welcome here, let them come here and see their flag. Let them think, let them believe that we care about them.”

Cr Moore said “Mayor you have almost brought me to tears. You’ve never done that before.”

Cr Moore continued “We are not similar. We are diverse, and currently our flag is a representation of terra nullius. The proposal to fly the Aboriginal flag is not about replacing the current flag but flying both, in recognition and celebration of the ongoing presence of Indigenous people. The idea that Aboriginal people might think is a trite and unnecessary act, like the acknowledgement, is something I have never heard expressed by Indigenous people. Indeed, early in my term as a councillor I spoke to the GM about getting Aboriginal flags and he told me that he could just do it, and a motion wasn’t even necessary. I don’t know if he still feels this way, and he's not here to tell us, but bringing this motion to the full council is a way of raising the issue in the community and concreting our recognition that we still have a way to go in our journey to reconciliation and I believe there will be widespread support in the community for doing it.

THE VOTE was For: Turley, Moore, Raynolds, Cockram, Harrison. Against: Goonan, Marjason, Crozier. (Cr Graham was absent).